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Module Contribute

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:37 pm

When you say 'not working so well' expand a bit and maybe we can help.

2da editing seems like a big deal the first time you do it, but after that
its just a monotonous pain in the ass Very Happy

It looks to me like you only need the lines 2589-2594 from LoW's core h hak
placeables.2da (granted that's only for the waves).

Were you able to find your top placeables.2da file all right?

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:44 pm

Yes, LoW n I found them and he showed me how to combine them but after he did, the appearances were not available in the toolset. What I mean is that the name for the appearance shows in drop down list but unavailable to use, if that makes sense.
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:04 pm

Ya, the appearance name will show up, because the 2da
is a 'placeholder' file that allows you to 'use' the content.
The content on the other hand might not be there...

As far as the wave forms themselves, where were those?

Did you put them into your own hak, or did you just throw
the Arbor Falls hak with them in it into your list?

lets say you have a hak called "drgnwlkr top hak" that is
the custom stuff you are adding and resides as the top
hak in the list of custom content.

To get the waves to work, you would need to put
the wave placeables, all the corresponding textures
(either .dds or .tga, I don't know in this case) and
a revised placeables.2da file with the new line inclusions
for it to work.

If on the other hand you are just using the AF hak,
in its entirety, you have to make sure it is lower down
the list than the hak with your edited 2da file in it.

Maybe a good analogy, is the 2da is like an inventory
sheet. The game reads the 2da, and if a line for the
particular content does not exist, then the game doesn't
recognize it. On the other hand hand if the line is there
and the content is missing, it doesn't harm anything, but
obviously it can't 'count' the resource.

I'm going to shut up now, cause as I reread this, I'm
not sure its all that helpful Very Happy .

I'm more than willing to answer any questions or help in any
way that I can, but I also don't want to tell you stuff you
already know, or make it seem like I know stuff that I don't.

The last time I was setting up my custom content for a
mod design, it took me almost a week of dedicated 2da
editing and combining to get all the stuff in that I wanted to
use, and once again its the truly monotonous part of building.


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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:12 pm

The hak that was edited is CEP 24 TOP and it is at the top of the hak list...the 2da lines were added in correct sequence at the very bottom of that hak. I think the problem is that the other files have not been placed into the override folder but am I assuming right that they need to go in there? I haven't included the AF hak at all just copied the lines from its placeables 2da.

You are helping me greatly and I appreciate it! Even if I do already know some of what you're saying, I still realize it is very easy to overlook things Shocked
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:24 pm

If I'm actually helping, that's OK then.

It sounds like the 2da file has been properly edited.

Instead of using the override folder, have you ever
used the Bioware Hak Editor? It should be included
in the utils directory in the root NWN directory, mine
is called nwhak.exe . Using that program you can
export files from other haks and create your own
haks.

Let me sit down and map out the next few steps,
instead of trying to wing it and I'll post the next
couple steps.



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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:26 pm

Yes, I have used that before and is how we got the 2da files out of the haks and edited them. I have created custom haks by using the utility and merging several haks from same builder before... if that helps any Smile
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:53 pm

These are the next logical steps that I took:

1) Create a folder on your desktop (or wherever) titled "seatravel_hak"
or something, this isnt the real hak, so it doesnt have to be
the real name you want later.

2) Go into the placeables.2da file and find the lines you added.
Two columns over from the "label" column is the "model name"
column. These are the files you will look for. They appear to
be: plc_seatrvl1a --> plc_seatrvl4b

3) locate the appropriate hak that contains them, in this case it looks
like they are in the core H hak from Arbor Falls. Using the nwhak.exe
program open up wrm_PW_COREh.hak and find those 8 model files and
export those to the folder you made on your desktop. That takes
care of the models themselves, but you may still need the textures.

4) at this point its good to use a copy of a program called NWN explorer
you can get from the vault, although you can also use a normal text
editor like notepad in a crunch. What you do now is open the first
.mdl file in your desktop folder in this case plc_seatrvl1a.mdl
there will be a bunch of essentially gibberish to you and I, but look
for the word "bitmap" in the file wherever it occurs. In this case
the first one appears to be chuj8t22 (faq9waga appear to me to be the
only other one used in this model). In the hak editor find the files
with those names (they can either be .dds or .tga, in this case I
think there is one of each) and export those to your desktop folder.
Then find the textures for the remaining models (I would imagine
spme will be the same).

5) After that you can use the hak editor to create a hak containing
the files you have in the folder, and then place it somewhere
below your top hak. That should be about it.

Sorry, I got kind of abrupt with my last step there, but I have to run out
the door. I'll try to check in after a bit but what I wrote up there is
the way I do it myself. LoW might have some better tricks.

Good Luck, and feel free to ask for clarifications! Very Happy

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:58 pm

Thanks again! I'll work with this and find out Wink
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  lord_of_worms on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:37 pm

basically what he said.
Smile

that being told, I do have to say from looking over your HAKS theme from last night you are in sore sore need of some organization..
like for instance having the CEP Top hak way down in the middle is basically just being overwritten by anything above it...I would suggest doing what I did Waaaaay back in the beginning when I first started building.

create a new hak and place ALL your 2da's in it and call it "whatevermymod_top"
thats right, go through each and every hak you have there and any 2da files (aside from edge.2da files which can stay with the tileset haks) export them to a folder on your desktop..BUT this is the important part WORK FROM DOWN to UP in the hak list..overwriting ANY 2da's that were exported previously..

this now will give you the 2da's you will now be using. Then start editing those ones instead, when you have added all the additional lines you like, package it up and hak it up.

as for the models themselves, yeah borojb nailed it, your probably missing the MDL and texture files for it not to show up... UNLESS you exported the ERF from say the demo mod I made...well then it might just be that the range I had is different from your range, so just change appearence to : Sea:Travel...etc

@Borojb. I will be around tonight to pick up where we left off last night (:
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:12 pm

Thanks for the input from you both and your help last nite Worm! The reason my cep TOP hak was way down there was based off input from another 'Hall of Fame' builder. When I started building a few years back, a 3rd builder told me the custom haks went kinda in the middle of the cep collection but the 2nd builder said all custom haks went above all cep. Since you showed me exactly how to combine 2da files, I'm not so worried about breaking things heh. So, now I have plenty of work ahead of me to form more custom haks. I have already created 3 from stuff I'm using from Six, PK and LON. I was just concerned about the size of the haks which I shouldn't be, I don't guess. Just to be sure...after combining the 2das into custom haks, I still need to place the tga/mdl files in the override folder? Reason I keep asking is that is how the 3rd builder had told me afew years ago.

Thanks again!
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:40 pm

One more hint for putting together the master 2da files like LoW
is suggesting is to use a dedicated 2da editor, several of which
are on the vault. The advantage with those over just using
notepad is that most of them have comparison functions to
make sure you don't have duplicate line entries.

I think I use excimers 2da combinulator Cool , but I also think
Axe Murderer may have one in his line of "killer" add-ons.
They all have their quirks.

EDIT:
Regarding the placing of files in the override folder, I don't
think that I've ever done that. I could see doing that until
you had enough stuff in the override to make a hak, but there is
no reason to have the files in both places that I know of.


Last edited by borojb on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to include about override)

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  lord_of_worms on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:49 pm

Huh..I had posted a big long speech about the no no's of using overrides...but looks like its gone...so without ranting like I did last time.

don't.

don't use the override for anything other than the following.
1) A GUI replacement (personal preference here)
2) Custom PC sound files

thats it, unless your a builder or modeler and just want to do quick tests and the like, you shouldnt use the override for building a mod or PW... put it all in haks, so your players will be sure to have every file needed.

just rename your override folder 'oldoverride' and create a new folder and rename that one 'override' that way you can swap back if your module spits out errors and track down any files in there you should add to your hak.

again... dont use override, that alone could be causing all your placeable woes if you have a placeable.2da in your override and your editing a HAK version since the game will ignore your hak version and use override instead.
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:13 am

Okay, thanks again and I'm glad I asked before I did anything. I have learned over the years that some can give bad advice about building and such. To lighten your feeling the need to rant, I haven't done anything yet. Usually, I'll ask and wait for response before I jump into something that I know little about.

I had been thinking before of taking all the custom content and making them into haks specific for the mod and may go ahead with that idea. I believe I may have Axe's 2da editor, I know I have his Tlk editor. Thanks for the guidance from you both!
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:06 pm

So did it work? Question Very Happy

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:10 pm

I don't have Axe's 2da compiler on this laptop and I'm dog sitting for a friend til she gets back from Europe so not at home to check my desktop. In other words, I haven't attempted anything really yet.
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  lord_of_worms on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:18 pm

did you at least remember to feed the dog?
Shocked
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:08 pm

Well there's 4 of them so I don't get the luxury of forgetting Laughing
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:45 pm

Okay, so I'm working with the RS Spawn system and think its great! Quite easy for even me to use! Cool I tried the DM tool and it didn't work but that could have been because the area event was not set...?

Btw, just have to say this again... thank you LoW for such great tilesets! I have an area called Wulfdael made from your autumn forest and watching the direwolves roam it is a sight to see! Twisted Evil
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  lord_of_worms on Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:28 pm

your very welcome!! and of course we are all here to help!

RS system is yes, very easy to use but built in a way that you can esily add new core functions.
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:59 pm

I know I've not realized its full potential yet but can see at a basic level why you like that spawn system Twisted Evil
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Mon May 07, 2012 8:39 pm

lord_of_worms wrote:basically what he said.
Smile

that being told, I do have to say from looking over your HAKS theme from last night you are in sore sore need of some organization..
like for instance having the CEP Top hak way down in the middle is basically just being overwritten by anything above it...I would suggest doing what I did Waaaaay back in the beginning when I first started building.

create a new hak and place ALL your 2da's in it and call it "whatevermymod_top"
thats right, go through each and every hak you have there and any 2da files (aside from edge.2da files which can stay with the tileset haks) export them to a folder on your desktop..BUT this is the important part WORK FROM DOWN to UP in the hak list..overwriting ANY 2da's that were exported previously..

this now will give you the 2da's you will now be using. Then start editing those ones instead, when you have added all the additional lines you like, package it up and hak it up.

as for the models themselves, yeah borojb nailed it, your probably missing the MDL and texture files for it not to show up... UNLESS you exported the ERF from say the demo mod I made...well then it might just be that the range I had is different from your range, so just change appearence to : Sea:Travel...etc

@Borojb. I will be around tonight to pick up where we left off last night (:


Once I do this, do I remove the haks from the Custom Content of the module and just leave the new _top.hak in?
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  borojb on Mon May 07, 2012 11:58 pm

If I'm understanding your question correctly, then no, do not remove the other
haks from Custom Content list.

Make sure that your new tophak is in the list at the top, that will make sure your
2da files will take precedence over the others. You will still need to include the other
haks on the other hand, because they hold whatever 'components' you need,
such as the models, textures, etc.

Think of the 2da file almost like an index or table of contents. The game will
use the 2da to figure out which resource to use, but to find the resource
it has to be in one of the haks in the list.

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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Drgnwlkr on Tue May 08, 2012 12:56 pm

That makes perfectly good sense Very Happy Thanks!
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Re: Module Contribute

Post  Tavion on Wed May 09, 2012 7:41 am

i like how you did the tileset - http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=8144

Every single thing you do to alter the module is a extra spice so keep up the great work "Lord of Worms" Very Happy

looking forward to hear your new ideas soon Twisted Evil


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Re: Module Contribute

Post  lord_of_worms on Wed May 09, 2012 2:08 pm

what was that popular statement from that movie awhile ago...

"If you build it...they will come..."

lol, its words that Arbor Falls lives by.
I appreciate the compliments....
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Re: Module Contribute

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